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Vocaloid Wiki talk:Community Portal
Category:Community This is the general discussion page for the wiki! New founders should leave a nice welcome message and encourage new visitors and editors to leave a note to get the conversation started. ---- Spicing up the this Wiki I feel as though this wiki could be improved immensly considering the popularity of vocaloids. At present it appears to be little more than an outlet for indivduals with ideas of fan made vocaloids. I follow the Vocaloids to some extent on both Youtube and Nico Video and the Wiki doesn't really compliment them, nor the artists and musicians that make it all possible. So i'd like to propose some changes. 1) Producers and artists. Without the talent of the producers and artists there wouldn't be any vocaloid songs. There needs to be more pages devoted to them and their work. There are pages scattered around on them, but most if not all are orphaned pages made by one user with sparse infomation and each has links to their own youtube channel and nothing else. I admire the effort they've put in but it's not really in the spirit of Wiki, which stands for unbiased facts and quality. These pages can be greatly expanded upon with video details, links to the original videos on Nico and good quality youtube reprints. More info on the producers, what songs they have worked on, their history and many other aspects can be expanded upon. 2) Weekly Vocaloid Rankings. A very important part of the vocaloid scene but the page seems to be left to gather dust. Ommision of all the un-used rankings and a rethink of the structure is needed. A carbon copy of the rankings in text form is obviously not needed nor wanted. What would suit the rankings best? Text listing of 30-11 and descriptions of the the top 10? Only include the top 3/5/10? List format or description? Nico link to indivdual videos? 3) Fanmade Vocaloids. I'd say a good 80% of the vocaloids on this page i had never even heard of before coming to this Wiki. On more than half of them theres no refferences to outside material be it artistic or musical and often there is only a thumbnail of the character with a small personality/relationship description. I'd like to put this into discussion: What exacly makes a fanmade vocaloid, and furthermore, what level of community or indivdual creative development is needed to warrent a place in this Wiki? Is it a stick-man going 'laaa', or a fully fleshed all singing all dancing vocaloid with the approval of crypton or other Vocaloid2 licenceors? I give extreme examples but right now there is just about everything inbetween on this page and it could do with trimming. The structure could certainly be more streamlined. Catagorising them by name would only work if there were a dozen or so but there are clearly more than the current layout can handle. What i'd like to propose: consoldating all offically recognised fanmade vocaloids (Akita, Hachune and Yowane) under 1 heading, giving a brief summary of their origins and linking to their main page in the wiki. Specific groups should have enough info to warrent their own pages, such as the Heavy Metal versions of the vocaloids (Hagane group) and the Rainbow vocaloids and then hopefully be expanded upon there, detailing their own songs, info about their creators etc. much like the current main vocaloid characters pages. After this, the vocaloids should be catagorised into singing and non-singing, further subcatagorised into the vocaloids they are based off of (there should be far fewer with some trimming and the groups have been moved to their own pages). I don't feel Iku Acme and Nana Macne belong in this section as they are completly seperate from the vocaloids, and even more so from the fanbased ones. Perhaps a merge into Related programs? 4) Standardising song listings and their derivatives. Listing and describing each and every song created by vocaloids would be a never ending task, but if the Wiki is to be comprehensive in its use more infomation should be present on all songs and their derivatives. As an example, take Kagamine Rin's Kokoro. The only song listed on her her brothers main page should be the original Kokoro produced by relevent musicians and artists complete with a link to Nico video and a high quality reprint on Youtube. The current style is great and i beleive should be kept the same. There should also be a link to the songs main page. A carbon copy of the details provided on the vocaloid page should be made available on this page and clearly labelled as the original. After this, alterantives to the original song should be listed in the same manner, including a description (if needed) along with details of musicians, producers, artists and vocalists (for fandubs) and finally a link to Nico video and Youtube. Derivative's should include the various PV's, Fan dubs (Japanese, English or otherwise), off vocal tracks and variations done with other vocaloids. This should be the page which connects all the producers, musicians and artists together. Collaberations between various vocaloids (inclding singing fan-based vocaloids) should be filed under a seperate page detailing the various original works if more than one vocaloid is singing (the Kagamines would be exempt from this rule of course) and would then follow the same tree branching of the normal vocaloid songs. The overall goal of all this is to create a deep, profound source of infomation on almost anything related to the vocaloids, with the prime focus being on the original vocaloids and their songs. --Kaiseine 17:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC) :The "Producers and artists" were recently created, so I don't know the the intention of those pages so far. I mostly prefer third party sources used on them used yet they do not exist. :"'''Weekly Vocaloid Rankings" is dead, it hasn't been worked on a long time, basically the person who created it gave up. :"Fanmade Vocaloids" is the most baised page and for some reason more users are adding just because they can and their art is not even popular ever since the top page encourages them to do so. Most of these emerge from DevianArt. I normally try avoid editing that page to avoid removing legitimate a character since I never heard of then, again probably aren't even notable. :"Standardising song listings and their derivatives": It can be done, the problem is the copies on YouTube are a copyright violation and violates Terms of Service (of YouTube). Unfortunately NicoNico requires registration and not every one can register. :If you really want to change the pages, just do so and be bold and edit them, either way most of those pages need to be re-written. Just re-write as you see fit and use the talkpage of the article to discuss the changes that should be made and the ones you made. That way the editors know why it was changed and they can discuss the problems of the article you alerted them in. Antonio Lopez (talk) 16:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC) As for "Producer" articles, I wrote all past pages. Before I began to write, there were no articles of the producer informations in this Wiki at all. On the contrary, there are NOT the producer informations written in English to the large amount elsewhere besides my YT channel. Antonio Lopez-san, I understand what you want to say. However, we must increase many producers' informations articles as possible as we can do now immediately. Therefore I chose the simplest method. The simplest method is the copy from my YT channel. Of course, I don't mind who fill up more each articles. The links (to Nico and YT) of each individual song will be necessary in the future. However, at least I have no time to do so now. In Japanese "Hatsune Miku Wiki", there are more than 500 articles of producers and more than 4000 articles of songs. Compared to that, the information amount of this Vocaloid Wiki is equal to ZERO. Immediately we must increase articles of producers and songs by translating from Japanese origin to English. As for "Fanmade Vocaloids", I want to offer the following new rules. # It must be a character whose multiple videos have been produced by multiple producers and have been uploaded to Nico or YouTube actually. And the videos must be made by using actually the Vocaloid software by their producers. # If the characters (which meet the above criteria) have a video (in which the character appears mainly) which got more than 100,000 view counts in Nico or YouTube, we give an individual article page to the characters. # As for the characters which do not have enough view counts, all are listed in one page. In addition, the characters which do not meet the 1st criteria are not mentioned. If there are already mentioned characters which do not meet the criteria, they will be deleted. I thought these rules in order to prevent it from placing personal "fanmade Vocaloids" (or characters having no concrete song video). --Ymiyass900 04:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC) :You have a point there, I will expand my comment later in a few hours since I need rest for now. I really don't see a problem with the producers section I just wanted to see more external links on the subject. Antonio Lopez (talk) 04:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC) ::Apologies Ymiuass900, i did not realise the producer pages had been created literally in the last few days. Again, my humblist apologies. ::I agree with you on the Fanmade Vocaloids. Especially the first point. They are called VOCALoids afterall. Otherwise they'd be, umm, MUTEoids? There needs to be more creative development put into their design. I've seen one or two where all they've done is alter an entire original song by increasing or lowering the pitch. If they like it enough, they can take it further with creating proper voice alterations, original songs and videos etc. The page should not be a dump for experimental Vocaloids and left to gather dust. There are fan sites in Japanese and English supporting Fanmades, fanfiction etc. May be worth seeing if they would be interested in being linked from this Wiki. I'll get asking. ::I'll try adopting the weekly Vocaloid rankings page and i'll gurantee to keep it updated with new rankings, but back writing all past rankings will take time and of course there will be other projects to work on in the meantime.--Kaiseine 09:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC) ::For the reason of filtering out Vocaloids that don't perform (read: sing) or those that are abandoned, I initially made a Proposed Fanmade Vocaloids page. But yeah, there is a growing number that don't sing at all. But let's not forget or single out those that really want to promote theirs and those who actually make content. As the growing number of non-singings are growing, I'm pondering on ripping out the entire non-singing segment and reclassifying them as Vocaloid Mascots. Or Fanmade Vocaloid Mascots. Suggestion 1 appears to happen only on phenomenal cases. That would render 98% of all fanmades disqualified. Suggestion 2 is good, but sometimes details (and those who make configurations) are better placed in profile pages. It keeps the pages neat and concise. Also, configurations are placed in the profile pages, and the characteristics as well, which helps in accuracy when it comes to people writing stories, making PVs, using their voices, and such. Of course, those who actually "sing" should get these pages, though there can be exceptions. As much as all other crufty fanmades should be kept out, there are some that are unenlightened who do end up redeeming themselves later. (Rena and Mime comes to mind) That should be remembered as well. The Utate Mitta and Human Vocaloids should be spun off Fanmade Vocaloids as soon as possible. O Herman 11:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC)